Joaquin Phoenix may be the latest actor to play Napoleon Bonaparte, but he certainly isn’t the first (nor will he be the last). Of all the people who’ve played the French emperor, from Marlon Brando to Verne Troyer, one looms large in our collective memories: The water slide-loving, ice cream-hoarding “Ziggy Piggy” Napoleon from Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure. Australian actor Terry Camilleri’s commitment to the role plays beautifully with the 1989 film’s upbeat comedic sensibility, and Camilleri even manages to instill emotional depth in the historical figure. Despite being described as a “dick” by Ted’s younger brother (and many in Europe during the Napoleonic Wars would probably agree), Napoleon is a babe in the wood in San Dimas, thanks to Camilleri’s performance.

With Ridley Scott’s Napoleon now conquering theaters, The A.V. Club caught up with Camilleri to talk about his time wearing the bicorne hat. Now 74 and living in Australia, the mostly retired Malta-born actor has nothing but fond memories of his time with Bill & Ted, where he nearly stole the show from stars Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter, and tapped into Napoleon’s humanity as the character navigates a strange new world. Camilleri took a break from building guitars to look back on playing Napoleon, and how he unleashed the emperor’s inner child.

The A.V. Club: Do you remember when you got the audition for Bill & Ted?

Terry Camilleri: I was called in. My agent said, “You’ve been asked to come in and meet the director [Stephen Herek].” I went in and I was sitting in the waiting room, and there were these other Napoleon lookalikes. I’m going, “Oh, some of these guys really look good. There’s no way that I’m going to get this.” Anyway, I went in there and talked with the director, and all we did was talk. But I think the fact that I’d worked with [directors] Peter Weir and Bruce Beresford helped me a lot because he’d already had an opportunity to see some of my work. We had a good conversation. We talked about the character and how much he had to say. And we just left it at that. And in the next day or two days later, my agent called me and said, “You got the part.”

AVC: Not bad.

TC: When I got the role, [I realized] shit, I’ve got to do a lot of research here. I mean, you can’t go on and play Napoleon without understanding what’s going on, so I had to do quite a bit of research on him. I’d actually read a lot about him before because I’ve always kind of been a fan of him. I saw Abel Gance’s Napoleon in New York, where it was projected onto three screens, and then goes to color. [Carmine] Coppola conducted an orchestra. It was an amazing film.

Then I did the research, but once I got on the set, I realized that he was a duck out of water. He wasn’t in his environment. He was in a whole new place, and now he was allowed to do and be anything he wanted.

AVC: You also starred in The Cars That Ate Paris, which is another kind of “fish out of water” story. Have you played many characters like that? 

TC: I did a film called Backroads where I played a French guy hitchhiking across Australia, and he hooked up with this white guy and two Black guys, and eventually a woman. They’re very different in that there are a lot of issues that came up in it. So it was good. It forces you to question a lot of things.

AVC: Like what?

TC: Life in a new country. Prejudice. But with Napoleon, it gave me an opportunity to let the child out and let him be free, you know, and have fun and not be subject to all the pressures that Napoleon must have been wary of.

AVC: Just to back up a second, when did you start acting?

TC: My dad used to take us to the drive-in every Friday night. My brother, my sister, and I. When I was eight years old, I noticed that each time I’d see the same actor in a new film. And I’m going, “Okay. I’d like to do that.” My dad said, “Why?” I said, “Because up there, you’re allowed to be anyone you want.” That kind of stuck with me for a long time. In the meantime, I grew up and I got into music, I learned guitar and played guitar in a band. And then that broke up, and so I joined an amateur theater company and I felt really at home on that stage.

AVC: What were those early years acting like?

TC: It was great. I felt a freedom where I could express more than through music. I could express myself through my body and through words. I felt a freedom on stage because it wasn’t about judgment. You can’t judge a character you’re playing. You’ve got to understand what’s going on and play that truth. And that was a freedom for me.

AVC: When you’re preparing to play a historical figure like this, you’re balancing some level of historical accuracy and the comedic sensibility of the script. How did you manage the two?

TC: I just played the situations emotionally, and in that light of “being allowed to,” that freedom that [Napoleon] had, I just went with that in every situation that came up. Now in the original script, none of the historical figures had dialog. But I just felt that I needed to say something, and the director said, “Go for it.” So I was on the phone with friends in Montreal and everywhere. “So how do I say this in French? And how did I say that in French?”

AVC: So you’re not fluent in French?

TC: No, I’m not. I had to learn things. In situations like when we did that bowling alley scene, I saw that the camera was at the end, so I just slid down the alley with the ball. And it worked. You know, I just slid down the alley with it because it was all new to me. And so I ran with it and I got pissed off, [mutters like Napoleon]. The director said, “Listen, any time you want to do something like this, go for it.” So I had that freedom to be able to come up with stuff and just go with the rhythm, the harmony that I was creating through this character.

AVC: There’s a part at the end of the film where you’re sitting in the front seat with the Missy character and you slide over. Was that in the script?

TC: It wasn’t in the script. A lot of what I did was improvised. The director said, “Listen, whatever you want to do, just go for it, and if it works, we’ll use it. If it doesn’t, we won’t.”

AVC: As funny as you are, there’s also a lot of humanity and dignity to your Napoleon. I’m thinking of the scene where Napoleon is standing outside of the bowling alley after Deacon has ditched him. Did you have a sense of that when you were shooting? 

TC: I did. I felt alone. The thing about playing any part, really, is to become emotionally involved with the truth that’s going on. One of the best criticisms that I’ve ever had was somebody contacted me on Facebook and told me about that scene. They said it was their favorite scene because they were so moved. And that really moved me for the audience to be able to see what was going on emotionally.

AVC: It’s a very physical role, too, because you do all those waterslides. Could you tell me a little bit about that?

TC: Everything was new to me. Well, to Napoleon. So, therefore, it was new to me, so I was hesitant. But once I went down, I had fun, and sometimes I went down holding the camera. And sometimes I didn’t. Then one time, there’s this little girl, and I picked her up and put her to the side and dove in. It was absolutely a lot of fun. I had a really good time doing it, and I’ve got good memories.

AVC: I know you were riding solo for a lot of the movie, but do you remember working with Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter? What was that experience like?

TC: Working with Keanu and Alex was great. They were really kind and they were really available and really, really good people. Everybody on it, especially George Carlin, we got on really well. We’d do a lot of schtick and comedy stuff in the makeup room and wardrobe and messing around. We had the greatest time. And I think that made a big difference. The scene when we were in the hall where we all brought our projects was originally done in a classroom. But then I think the producers realized that the film was going so well that they needed to make that a bigger event. So they got a lighting guy to come in and set that up. And we did it that way and it worked.

AVC: What was it like when you put on the costume for the first time?

TC: Ah, yeah, well, that makes a big difference to me in the character. Once I got the costume on, I felt important, so I went with that. I used that, and that worked really well. There was this one time that Dino De Laurentiis had one of Napoleon’s original costumes, and they brought it on the set because his daughter, who was one of the producers of the film, was coming in and really liked what I was doing. They let me put it on for a scene and it fit. It felt really, really good. So I wore it for one scene.

AVC: Was the costume actually Napoleon’s, or was it from the Abel Gance movie? What did you mean by that?

TC: I don’t know if it was from that, but they told me it was an original costume. So I don’t know for sure where it came from, but I wore it because it was interesting.

AVC: Is the costume in the movie?

TC: Yes, it was the day that I was hanging on the wires, and I was going through the [time circuits]. That was interesting because it made a lot of sense to the character and to what was happening to Napoleon because that felt like—and so did the waterslides—like going through the birth canal and all of a sudden being reborn so that it all made sense.

AVC: I love that reading of it. There is a childlike sensibility to him, especially when he’s eating ice cream.

TC: It was innocence. All of a sudden, he found his innocence, and I’m very much like that. I’m naive in many ways and innocent in many ways. When I was younger, I thought I was having problems. I thought there was something wrong with me, especially when I was at school because I’m dyslexic, and I didn’t know what dyslexia was, so I thought something must not be quite right with me, and that’s what it was. You’re not really confident in yourself, but when you find freedom through creativity as an actor or a musician, you can let go. I was able to do that.

AVC: Were there any Napoleon stories that you had on your mind when I first emailed you? 

TC: I went to Paris and I went to Napoleon’s tomb, and I sat there. His tomb was in the middle. Then up a couple of steps, on one side was the tomb of his general who was with him, and then on the other side was his brother. But I went walking to that area where the general was, I felt very angry. It was really interesting. And when I felt the world moved back to where Napoleon was, I felt a lot calmer.

AVC: You have a spiritual connection to him. How does it feel when you see other people play Napoleon?

TC: I can sit back and watch their interpretation of a side of Napoleon or an aspect of Napoleon that the director was working on expressing. Yeah, no judgment there. I’m looking forward to seeing Joaquin Phoenix’s version. I’m sure he’ll do a good job.